THE TREASURE HUNTER

Sanubar Bagirova is a Doctor of Philosophy in art studies, leading researcher of the Institute of Architecture and Art of the National Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan, Honored Art Worker of Azerbaijan. The name of the Azerbaijani scientist and musicologist, a researcher of traditional music is well known far beyond the borders of Azerbaijan. An author of serious works on the problems of mugham, UNESCO expert, member of the International Council on Traditional Music, she has gained prestige in the international musical circles both as a theoretical theorist and as an educator and popularizer of Azerbaijani music. She is the author of the two-volume Azerbaijani Mugham. Articles and Researches, Azerbaijan music and musicians and about sixty other scientific works published in local and foreign scientific publications. She often makes speeches abroad at prestigious scientific conferences, where she also advises scientists and graduate students on issues related to Azerbaijani music. S. Bagirova was the initiator and consultant of a series of programs on BBC Radio 3 World Routes dedicated to Azerbaijan and Azerbaijani traditional music. In total, she has recorded and released 27 audio CDs internationally (France, Italy, Britain, Australia) and in Azerbaijan, and also made a documentary about Azerbaijani children-musicians.

Sanubar-khanim, how important is the propaganda of Azerbaijani music on international level? What are the recent developments in this area?

I would not call it a propaganda. Instead, I am popularizing Azerbaijani culture. I think an image of any country, big or small, is not its minerals or the amount of money circulating in it. It is all about its culture, including the artistic culture. This is the image, which makes the country popular in the world. And it is up to us to make this image attractive to the world. Yes, the minerals and money play a certain role in politics, but no one respects your country just because God blessed you with rich minerals. I really like the following quote by Margaret Thatcher: "A country's wealth need not depend on natural resources, it may even ultimately benefit from their absence. The greatest resource of all is Man." Hence, the culture is just as important as strategic resources of the country. This is especially true for young independent states striving to declare themselves as full-fledged members of the world community. The more significant and qualitative the country's contribution to the cultural diversity of the modern world, the higher its international image and recognition.

There is also a factor of fame. One can have an original and vivid cultural heritage like we, the Azerbaijanis, but if it remains little-known and invisible in the world, then will not we become "the only readers of the library we have created"?

I remember that in 2010, at the invitation of the BBC radio, I brought a group of our musicians to London to perform at a concert in honor of the anniversary of the World Routes Program on the music radio channel. After the concert, which was performed by several music groups from different countries, the editor-in-chief of the influential British music magazine Songlines approached me to share my impressions of our group. This magazine is published twenty thousand copies and is distributed throughout Europe and North America. I always remember how he told me: "Azerbaijani music is some hidden treasure. When people talk about Indian, Chinese, Indonesian, Arab music, people almost imagine what it is. Azerbaijani music is a real treasure, about which few in the world know anything."

The cultural contribution of our people - our music, poetry, carpets, painting, jewelry - have for centuries been attributed to the culture of those countries that Azerbaijan was or was neighboring with, and only from a relatively recent time it was identified over our national name, that is not as Iranian, Caucasian or Russian, but it is Azerbaijani. We must constantly and very much work to ensure that our national cultural contribution is noticed and remembered in today's diverse world.

Tell us about your famous audio series Traditional Music of Azerbaijan. How was it perceived abroad?

This series was released under the label of the famous Italian company Felmay Records. It consists of seven discs, which are combined under a common name Traditional Music of Azerbaijan. This project received some financial support from the Ministry of Culture and Tourism. I worked on the series from 2011 to 2013. It included almost all genres and forms of Azerbaijani traditional music including mughams, instrumental music, various genres of ashig music, folk dance and song melodies. In other words, it was a kind of audio-anthology of Azerbaijani national music. This is the first musical collection published in Europe and presenting Azerbaijani music to the western audience in such a fullness. In addition, I wrote introductory articles in Azerbaijani and English to each of the seven discs. The discs of this series came out one after another for three years. The European music media and the Internet sites published separate reviews on each of them. Many of my records were broadcast on radio channels around the world. Can you imagine that on the radio channel somewhere in California, there were records of Azerbaijani ashigs Aghamurad Israfilov, Neymet Gasimli, Ashig Samir? On the well-known radio channel Mundofonias in Spain, in the program From Ireland to Azerbaijan, my records of young singers Rovshan Mammadov, Kamil Nabiyeva, and Ramil Guliyev tones sounded. You can find many such foreign playlists and radio reviews in my computer. The author of the review published in one of the Danish magazines wrote on the disc with the mugham written by Gochag Askerov: "I really like Azerbaijani music, and this album clearly shows what for. Beautiful album of a fantastic singer." Andrew Cronshaw, a famous British music critic, wrote about my records of People's Artist Nazaket Teymurova: "There is no need to talk much about this disc. Just listen to it. Mugham is a difficult music for perception, but in the performance of this singer, it penetrates right into the heart." As a musicologist, I have really enjoyed reading the review of the well-known French music magazine Trad on the disk Azerbaijan dance rhythms: "In selecting music for this disc, you can feel a true musicological gift. The listener gets a comprehensive understanding of the diversity of Azerbaijani dance music." One British edition wrote in its review of my CD Azerbaijan Songs of Love: "Our idea of ​​Azerbaijani music has so far been associated exclusively with the name of Alim Gasimov but as it turned out, there are a lot of talented musicians and good music in this country." I talk so much about this series because in Azerbaijan it is known only to a few. The disks of this series were not sold in Azerbaijan and this project was never presented to the Azerbaijani public, despite its international success.

Sanubar-khanim, we all know that mugham is our everything. But what do you think is mugham?

It is a sixty-four-dollar question, which combines several questions in one: what is mugham for me? What is mugham for you? What is mugham for Azerbaijanis? What is mugham in general? I will try to answer the last two questions.

For the majority of Azerbaijanis, mugham is a specific, unique national artistic language and a tool of self-expression. I will not talk about the cultural affinity existing between Azerbaijani mugham and other similar phenomena in the Oriental music such as the Iranian radif, the Central Asian shashmakam or the Iraqi makams. All these musical phenomena, even being related by kinship, still "speak" their own musical language and differ from each other in their emotional artistic psychotype. Actually, not only mugham, but also our ashig art reflects the type of our emotionality, that is, how we see, feel and experience the life. There are quite a lot of Azerbaijanis who are not particularly attached to this music, but regardless of their personal musical tastes and preferences, they perceive both mugham and ashig art as original manifestations of their cultural heritage.

What is mugham in general? It is a kind of music that exists and is transmitted from generation to generation in the oral tradition. Mugham can be recorded (and often recorded) using the musical notation, but no one studies mugham performance on notes. Mugham is remembered by ears as a live transmission from a teacher to a student.

Due to the peculiarities of its rhythmics, mugham leaves an impression of ancient music: mugham  melodies are melodies without rhythm, which, as is known, belong to the most archaic type of melodies. Melodies that are not tied to any rhythm create a special mood: they set the listener to meditation. For example, the melodies without rhythm were common in the medieval church music of Western Europe and Byzantium. They still remain today in the church musical canon of some countries. But mugham is not a church music, although it can sound in some cult or mourning Muslim rituals, enhancing the emotional experience of their participants, helping to throw out a completely human experience of grief or spiritual ecstasy. And yet mugham is the music of love, music that transmits the most diverse states of love - from the earthly to its spiritual hypostases. On the one hand, it is difficult to perceive music, especially for those who are not familiar with its artistic language and code. On the other hand, this music has an incredible emotional power, the magic of impact on a person. I traveled a lot with our musicians around the world - from Australia and New Zealand to Taiwan, from America, Europe to China, Israel. And every time I saw how this music captured listeners, I saw their shock, excitement, anything, but not quiet curiosity.

What about the ashig music, its character, its role in the Azerbaijani culture and the current state?

The talents of Azerbaijani ashigs, like the Azerbaijani mugham, is recognized internationally. As you know, it was included in the Representative List of the World Intangible Cultural Heritage of UNESCO in 2009. Ashig music has an unprecedented degree of popularity and geographic distribution in Azerbaijan. With a few exceptions, there are centers of ashig culture in all regions of Azerbaijan, in the west and east of the country, in Southern Azerbaijan, as well as in Azerbaijani ethnic enclaves in the territory of other states - in Georgia, Dagestan and until recently in Armenia. This is the art of our Turkic nature, it genetically connects our culture with the entire Turkic world.

A distinctive feature of the ashig art is its syncretism. In other words, a simultaneous combination of several types of artistic and creative activity. Ashigs sing, recite poems, tell romantic, heroic or edifying stories (dastans), but at the same time, they play a string instrument called saz, and in some regions, they also dance during their performances.

It is interesting that the history of Azerbaijani has preserved the names of women ashigs of the 18-20^th centuries. There are many woman ashigs in Azerbaijan today. I believe it is a distinctive feature of the Turkic world, where a woman has a little more freedom compared to other Muslim women.

You asked me about the role of ashigs in the Azerbaijani culture. That is a good question. Ashigs have always been the custodians of the Azerbaijani language and national literature created in this language. Their creativity condenses to the highest degree in themselves and conveys the national character and energy of Azerbaijanis, their way of life, whatever it may be, not overshadowed by reflection. In the history of Azerbaijani literature, there were periods when our poets and writers created most of their works in other languages ​​- Arabic, Persian, Turkish or Russian. Ashigs always composed poetry only in the Azerbaijani language and addressed their audiences only in this language. Therefore, today we understand the ashig verses created as long as five centuries ago equally easily, as if they were written yesterday.

But why is the ashig music not popular among the youth?

I think you are mistaken. Of course, there are certain circles in Baku, mostly Russian-speaking youth, who prefer jazz or rock to mugham or ashig music. But they make up a relatively small percentage of the total population of the country. Several years ago, as part of a multinational scientific project of the University of London, I shot a 90-minute documentary Ancient art of mugham and ashigs in the 21st century, which is about children and teenage musicians. The film was released in Azerbaijani language with English subtitles. We shot young ashigs and khanende during their lessons in Baku schools, as well as the amateur children musicians in Shamakhi and Gadabey. Some of them in Gadabay tell how they asked their parents to buy them a saz. Imagine a child crying and asking his parents for a saz, instead of toys or gadgets. Those who are older, take a bus from the surrounding villages to take the lessons of playing saz at the city music school. I remember how impressed was the audience watching my film by the talent and education of our children musicians in Moscow at the Russian Academy of Music, as well as in London, Jerusalem, Isfahan, and Astana.

During the filming, I used to communicate a lot with the families of refugees from the occupied regions of Azerbaijan, where historically there were productive ashig centers, circles and or schools. In these families, parents often send their children and grandchildren to music schools to learn ashig music, even if they do not plan their future in this field. For them, the ashig music is part of their traditional way of life, which they try to reproduce or preserve in a new life environment and want the subsequent generations of their families to remain attached to their cultural roots.

Tell us about what you are working on now?

I have recently finished the work on the disc, which includes compositions in the mugham-jazz style performed by the duo of the French jazz singer Pierre de Trégomain and the Azerbaijani khanende Gochag Askerov. Pierre found Gochag’s disk released in Italy in 2011 at the Paris National Library and was delighted with his voice and vocal technique. He later wanted to learn from him the technique of mugham performance. Through mutual acquaintances, he found my address, wrote to me that he wanted to visit Baku for a month and asked me to contact him with Gochag. Of course, I arranged this meeting. During a month, Pierre worked hard with Gochag, and they had an idea to combine mugham improvisation with jazz. They prepared a small program and invited me to listen to it to express my opinion. I have to admit that I was impressed by their performance. My hands trembled and my heartbeats stopped while I was listening to them. It was the moment when the music not so much gives you pleasure but turns your sould upside down, takes you to another reality. I was sure that they would have public success and recognition. Indeed, they had a great concert last November in the overcrowded hall of the International Mugham Center in Baku. The CD, which will be released soon, presents the recordings from this concert, right from the audience. I wrote a big introductory article to the disk in English. I have also certain scientific plans, but I would not like to talk about them now. They still remain as plans only. 

Thanks for the interview!